Groundbreaking Morrow Marriage podcast Helping Couples Worldwide
Cass and Kathryn Morrow are a husband and wife duo who are disrupting divorce all over the world with their unique coaching methods, books and podcast. Cass, an aware, managing, severe narcissist has built his men’s “Marriage Reset” program on 3 main pillars: Peace, Partnership and Passion. Men become so valuable that their wives would be crazy to leave them.
Kathryn is a narcissistic abuse survivor and aims to keep families together. Where many women would leave, Kathryn stayed and fought for her family. Trained in The Gottman Method, Kathryn is pioneering conflict management with her novel approach and methods.
Hosts of the Morrow Marriage podcast, together they have reached over 100 countries and have helped over 4500 couples worldwide.
My program is called The White Picket Fence Project, which is the women’s constituent of a broader program called Morrow Marriage. My husband and I are co-hosts of the Morrow Marriage podcast, which is just over a year old and gets approximately 15,000 downloads per month and is in over 100 countries. We have a combined social media following of about half a million people, and we each have a net worth valued at over a million dollars.
You are a narcissistic abuse survivor. Share your journey.
My husband and I fell in love very quickly. He and I were both taking a break from dating due to bad experiences, so when we met, the chemistry was HOT but neither of us wanted to date. In addition to that, I was (am) a Christian, and he was a professed agnostic who grew up atheist. We had multiple reasons why we didn’t want to get involved. A few months later the flirting was THICK – we would text for hours and we saw each other 5 days a week at the gym. We decided to go on just one date and we got married one month later. The love bombs were STRONG. It was nothing I had ever experienced before. Before long his love turned to contempt, and he was verbally aggressive, physically intimidating, and sexually abusive. For 6 years I was a pro at fight, flight, freeze and fawn and I almost lost myself. After having our first two children and getting pregnant with our first I realized things were not going to change unless I took control. This is when I decided to learn new skills. I led my family with empathy and compassion and broke down his walls of narcissism. Obviously there’s more to the story but that’s the main idea!
You and your husband Cass are disrupting divorce all over the world with your unique coaching methods, books and podcast. Take us through your aim to keep families together.
As women we grow up with a dream, and that dream often includes marrying our Prince Charming and starting a family. What many women don’t think about is that if the marriage fails, you’ll lose custody of your children 50% of the time. Emotional abuse and narcissistic abuse are both hard to prove in court. Often if there is no physical evidence, the father will get 50% custody of the children, ripping the mother’s heart out. If he is not safe enough to provide a safe and stable place for his wife, what makes you think he can provide safety for the children? Women become torn! Should I leave and allow him to raise them unsupervised? Should I stay and make sure to have some semblance of control over how they’re being treated and cared for? It’s very privileged to say a woman should leave. Many, many of us don’t leave. My goal is to help women lead the way in their marriage – lead their husbands to healing so that they don’t have to stay just for the kids, and they also don’t have to leave and lose partial custody of their children, potentially putting them in harm’s way with an emotionally unsafe caretaker or parent.
What is the “Marriage Reset” program?
The marriage reset is the men’s coaching program. Morrow Marriage is our podcast, and the business that runs both the women’s program and the men’s program. We coach men and women completely separately because often only one spouse is willing to do the work. By working on just one spouse, that spouse can influence and lead the other spouse. The marriage reset is the men’s program where my husband Cass leads men and helps them lead their families by providing various pillars, such as peace. The peace pillar is foundational because when your marriage is in turmoil, anything beyond peace is often hard to even imagine. Providing peace will allow various levels to unlock. For example, emotional safety leads to emotional intimacy, and emotional intimacy is needed for physical intimacy (even if your marriage is in trouble, sex is the language you only speak to each other and it should be a goal to have a healthy sex life – you’re not roommates, you’re not just parents, you’re husband and wife and physical intimacy is something only the two of you will share).
How is The White Picket Fence Project making a difference in people’s lives?
The WPF PROJECT is the women’s side of the program. Many men are not willing to go to traditional therapy, which doesn’t work, by the way. If traditional therapy worked, people wouldn’t need to go to sessions for 2, 5 or even 10 years. When a man is not willing to go to counseling, what is the woman to do? Like I mentioned earlier, these women are desperate to save their families. When the marriage is toxic they might not even want to save the marriage, but in order to keep the family together, saving the marriage is essential. I hated my husband. I actually wished him dead on multiple occasions and daydreamed about suffocating him with a pillow while he was sleeping. I was so unhappy and he was narcissistically abusive. I was desperate. WPF is for women who are at their wits end. They’ve tried everything. This is their last attempt at saving their family, even if they hate their husband. When people enroll in this program they get their asses handed to them. I call them out on their lack of compassion and gratitude. I encourage them to see themselves as an individual, not a wife. Can you be proud of how you’re reacting to
Your husband’s disgusting behavior? Or have you become disgusting in return? I became absolutely disgusted in response to my husband’s abuse. WPF helps women find not only the woman you used to be, but the woman you always wanted to be. It doesn’t matter what he throws at you – you can be YOU, and that woman, in her own strength, can lead her husband back into love and family.
The Morrow Marriage podcast has reached over 100 countries and has helped over 4500 couples worldwide. Tell us about your upcoming episodes.
One of my favorite episodes is episode 200 on gaslighting. Gaslighting is a buzzword that people throw around without REALLY even knowing what it means. When you give someone credit for gaslighting, you’re really giving them WAY too much credit. https://youtu.be/TdPbrdwwIJA
What has been the greatest lesson that you have learned on your journey? I think the biggest thing I’ve learned involves evaluating who I can and cannot help. We have helped so many people, and it’s important to ask the right questions so that you can identify what people are going through. People love our story! It inspires so much hope. When I bring anyone into my program, I have a series of questions that has been fine tuned to determine whether or not my methods will have an impact and will in fact keep a family together.
Tell us about your #1 Amazon bestsellers “Disrupting Divorce“ and “Behind the White Picket Fence.” What is your mission?
Disrupting Divorce is off the charts in new book sales. This book takes The Marriage reset (men’s program) and condenses it into a few hundred pages at a cost effective price point. Available at newrockpress.com/dd. Behind the WPF is a workbook for women, based on the WPF project (women’s program). I’ve pioneered conflict management in my method called “the WPF HALF RAP” where I use conflict and peace theories from Anatol Rapoport (was passionate about peace in the Vietnam war). The traditional conflict management models in existence currently require both partners to be engaged. Mine, just like my program, require only one. Only one spouse needs to be engaged in order to use my methods. The book has sold more in 6 weeks than most books sell in a year. My husband wrote disrupting divorce and I wrote the foreword. For the women’s book the roles are reversed. We both contribute to each other’s books.
What is next for you?
2025 has started off very strong. We have grown exponentially for the last few years, and this is going to be the year we reach a record number of people. One of the coolest additions to the program is our new, private community on our mobile app, “Morrow,” which you can find in your App Store. By going to go.morrowmarriage.com you can sign up for our free community and view all of our free resources, as well as get information on coaching programs. Our goal is to disrupt divorce and keep families together, and 2025 is the year that we are going to be as accessible as ever, with resources and communities that are not contained by borders, gender, social or financial status, religion etc. We are change makers, and this year is the year the Morrow brand will become a household name.
